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Tepoorten: How much can taxpayers take? PDF Print

By Patrick Tepoorten

Taxpayers had a ring-side seat last week for the DFL majority’s passage of a massive tax increase for transportation. The cost of the seat, though, was enough to make even the greediest scalper blush: $6.6 billion, the single largest increase in state history. In the best of times, a bitter pill. In times of rising prices, rampant home foreclosures, flat job prospects, and a recession, downright irresponsible.

Perhaps worse, it was foisted on a people who showed no desire to absorb it. In a recent SurveyUSA poll, 59 percent said the state should not increase the gas tax, and 62 percent opposed increases to license fees; solid majorities by any measure. This, despite the almost constant emotional drumbeat of the bridge collapse. Perhaps legislative tone deafness explains why only 29 percent are satisfied with its overall performance.

Taxpayers should note that both local legislators, Sen. Rick Olseen and Rep. Jeremy Kalin, strongly supported the increase, even as they warned of recession. But, while the feds recognize  the best way to deal with a recession is to return taxpayers’ money, the state preferred to fix its recession and deepened ours.

Kalin partially based his support for the tax hike on the “relief” it will bring to property taxes. One has to wonder how long it will be before that relief is but a distant memory, if indeed it manifests at all.

In 2008, Chisago County increased its levy 10 percent, North Branch - 9.7, Rush City - 30, Stacy - 18. There is no reason to believe there won’t be more next year. The North Branch School District has made official its intention to levy for high school improvements, both the district and the city intend to push referenda in the next two years, and the county is building a jail.

As with most relief packages, any “decrease” (read as smaller increases) in property taxes will quickly be absorbed by the bodies that rely on them, until we are right back where we are now or worse, with an additional $6.6 billion responsibility - $500 a year for a family of four making between $49,000 and $79,000 - and even higher gas prices. Oh, and the state is facing a billion dollar shortfall this year and even more the following year.

A word of advice: Enjoy the “relief” now.

Olseen highlights the economic stimulus aspect of the package, as if taking money from Peter and giving it to Paul is somehow a boost. Sure, it may provide some work, but in the end it isn’t stimulus, it’s simple redistribution, and not at all coincidentally to the very same entities who pushed the increase.

Speaking of redistribution, the state’s infinite generosity with your money also includes $25 income tax credits for the “lowest tax bracket” (read as non-taxpayers). Taxpayers have the distinct pleasure of funding not only the historic increase, but also a lessening of the resultant financial burden for those who won’t contribute at all.

No one disputes that roads and bridges need attention. But, like most taxpayers, I am sick of watching the state waste money hand over fist and then raise taxes because it’s easier than cleaning house, re-prioritizing, or, heaven forbid, cutting elsewhere.

Unfortunately for the people who work hard to earn the money to fund state plunder, this may be just a beginning. On the heels of this historic fleecing, the legislature will push another one, the $6.8 billion “Legacy Act,” in this fall’s election, along with an extra billion for education.

One might think, with the emphasis the DFL majority put on this huge tax increase, citizens were clamoring for it. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the same poll noted earlier, only 19 percent thought transportation funding was a top priority. More people than that voted for the generic “other.” Contrarily, 51 percent said balancing the budget was key, and 58 percent want it done with cuts, not tax increases.

Here’s something for voters to keep in mind in upcoming elections at all levels: As you pull the proverbial lever, ask yourself if the candidates have even the slightest interest in your budget, or if they are interested only in governments’. If the answer is the latter, your vote will be the last chance you have to show how much yours matters to you.

Use it wisely.

Comments (8)add comment
wade vitalis: ...
No one wants taxes raised. If they say they do, their lying.

So what is actually important is what the USA poll didn't say.

It didn't say 100% of Minnesotans don't want to raise the gas tax and fix roads. It didn't say 41% support the gas tax. It didn't say the Governor's approval rating still hovers around 50% - meaning 50% of Minnesotans don't like him; which largely forms the basis or your argument.

More importantly, is the fact that we are a representative Democracy - not a mob rule society.

President Roosevelt faced a major dilemma at the out set of WWII. The nation over-whelmingly wanted to stay out of the war - 75%. And congress had the votes to prevent it. Lend/lease was a bold step - not out of public sentiment; but out of judgment and leadership about what was best for the country. The rest, as we say, is history.

What we are left with in your column are distorted facts about the size of the bill, as Senator Olseen already pointed out, and ignorance to the obvious issue people in North Branch face with the 35 overpass.

Ignorance is neither bliss nor truth.


1

March 13, 2008
A State Taxpayer: ...
That's pretty inspiring stuff Mr. Vitalis,

I'm really starting to feel great about being taxed to death by the state. I wonder if you could throw in a few well chosen words about how great it is to have my taxes jacked up by the City, County and School District too and I will be on Cloud 9!!!!

Let me at those tax increasing referendums I am voting Yes! Yes! Yes!

Lead on DFL, Lead On!!!!!!

Interestingly enough, the last approval numbers I was able to find for the Legislature (MPR Poll conducted Jan 20-27, 2008) indicated an approval rating of 46% (meaning 54% of Minnesotans don't like them).

Perhaps even more disturbing for Democrats is that the approval rating among independent voters was only 35% (meaning 65% of them don't like them either). I wonder what those numbers might look like today AFTER they have raised our taxes $6.6 Billion (over the next ten years)?

It was kind of the DFL leadership to throw Senator Olseen & Representative Kalin a $15.8 Million dollar bone for our district and another whopping $1.3 million for North Branch. That is just a hair over one quarter of one percent of the $6.6 billion total, woo-hoo! I wonder what our share of the taxes paid will be? I would wager that your average Chisago County resident puts on a few more miles per year (read double) than that mythical "Average Minnesotan" that drives 12-15 thousand miles per year. Some of us may even drive (dare I say it) SUV's, that don't always get 22 MPG. I've no hard numbers, but I'm guessing we'll be giving more than we get here.

In the world of representative democracies, when our representatives fail to represent the best interests of the people who elected them, but instead simply do their parties bidding (read Olseen & Kalin), they don't get re-elected.

If your DFL friends keep up this kind of "Leadership" I suspect that their majority in at least one if not both houses of the Legislature will be considerably slimmer come November if not, as we say, "History".
2

March 13, 2008
wade vitalis: ...
Don't get me wrong, I do share your pain and frustration as a State Taxpayer.

One reason I prefer a constitutionally dedicated gas tax is I know where the money will be spent. It will go to roads and bridges.

As far as $6.6 billion over 10 years... My house payment will cost me $360,000 over 10 years. My commercial and residential taxes $185,000 over 10 years. Food for my family - $48,000; my car's - $50,000; my phone bill - $12,000. Good thing I pay them monthly or I couldn't afford it!

This might be a better way to look at the gas tax.

Let's start with the "hard numbers" you missed in your comments. They are really quite simple to calculate. Roughly 7 cents times 20 gallons or a buck forty.

The gas tax will cost me $1.40 each time I fill. It will cost everyone the same amount each time they fill.

If, as you suggest, you drive a gas guzzler; it will still cost you the same each fill. But because you will fill more often, it may cost you $60 - $80 per year.

I've simply concluded that the benefit outways the cost. You seem to have come to a different conclusion.

What really frustrates me is folks like us earning $30-150,00 paying 11.9% in taxes while those making $350,000 pay 8.9%. I create jobs in my business - why can't I pay 8.9%

I think that is why we pay so much in taxes. I think there is unfairness in the tax system and you an I pay for it!

Thanks for reading.

Wade


3

March 15, 2008
State Taxpayer: ...
Mr. Vitalis,

I would agree that we have come to a slightly different conclusions. The conclusion I have come to is that the people of this state are currently paying enough in taxes to fund all that our Government really needs to be doing. I might even go so far as to suggest that we are paying rather more than what we really should be for what we are getting. The total state budget (All Funds) in 2008 from what I have been able to gather was/is $27.8 billion – that is about $5,300 for every man woman and child in the state. Now it’s probably the case that some of the funding comes from the Federal Government too but doesn’t that seem like a lot of spending to you, regardless of who’s paying for it?

My problem is that the state is already collecting an astronomical amount of money from us and yet is unable to maintain our roads without having to raise our taxes even more and “constitutionally dedicating” them to roads. If our elected officials are so incompetent and so lacking in self control that they are unable to find a way to fulfill one of the most fundamental functions of state government without the constitution forcing them to do it – I would like to see them all gone come November.

Regarding the 11.9% vs. 8.9% comment – I guess I’m not entirely certain where you’re coming up with those percentages, perhaps you are throwing in gas/sales/property taxes on top of income taxes? If so, I don’t have a problem with people who make a $350M paying an overall smaller percentage of their income in state and local taxes because not all taxes are income taxes – nor should they be.

Property taxes are based on the value of the property, not on the income of the person who happens to own the property. Just because a person earns more than me, if the value of his property is the same, he is not getting more value from the county plowing the road in front of his house, nor is he getting more benefit from the fire department & police protecting it. Neither is he receiving more benefit from his local school district

In fact, from a fairness perspective, a flat income tax rate would probably be more “fair” than the progressive income tax rates we have currently. However, if you really want to get yourself down to 8.9% you might consider selling your business and your house (that’s a rather hefty mortgage payment you’ve got) and getting an apartment, getting rid of your cars and riding your bike or taking the bus, severely restricting your purchases of items other than food & clothing and keeping your taxable income below $31,860. Alternatively you could try and grow your income and make those fixed portions of your tax burden smaller as a percentage of your income, whichever sounds like more fun to you.

Thanks, ST
4

March 17, 2008
State Taxpayer: ...
Mr. Vitalis,

Just one more quick update for the above discussion. As you predicted - no one really likes having their taxes raised.

I just came across an updated surveyUSA poll taken on (3/12/08) or notably AFTER the legislature voted for this tax increase. Here is a link to the results:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=348b5a9e-83fd-491c-998d-40580501b1b1

The poll was comissioned by KSTP TV and 700 MN adults were surveyed with margin of sampling error of or - 3.7% (for those who need all those questions answered B4 they will pay any attention to poll results).

Most interesting to me was the fact that the approval rating for the legislature as of March 12th was at 29% (meaning 71% of Minnesotans don't like them). Also of interest was the fact that 63% were opposed to the tax increase passed by the legislature to fund transportation.

The question I guess at this point is, will taxpayers hold on to their anger until November and send a message to their legislators via the ballot box or will cooler (more apathetic) heads prevail over the next 8 months resulting in the maintenance of the status quo. Time will tell, but I am guessing much will depend on how much more of this kind of "leadership" the DFL provides between now and then.....

Thanks, ST
5

March 17, 2008
wade vitalis: ...
ST

Thanks for the banter.

Just to be clear, I didn't predict people don't like taxes. I made it as a statement of fact - which it is. People don't like taxes.

As far as the amount of taxes Minnesotans face. Last March 2007 the Department of Revenue reported that "lower and middle income deciles will experience higher over all taxes while higher deciles will see a decrease". The percentages I quoted you earlier were from the Department of Revenue report.

If you, ST, really don't have a problem with people earning $350,000 paying less in percentage of taxes than you; your higher taxes must not really bother you.

On the other hand, my high taxes bother me when I can't grow my business and create local jobs because the expansion improvements and the additional property taxes created will eat away any potential profit.

My taxes bother me when when I realize eveyone making $350,000 get's a tax rebate from the tax system each year when I have to wait indefinately.

Then there is your assertion that the total taxes is the problem - not the tax system.

While Minnesota has consitently ranked high nationally, in the top 10, in personal income and economic growth, we have have consitently ranked in the middle in cost of government - around 8% and taxes as a percentage of personal income - 26th.

Why is that important?

Most Republicans I know like to anger or confuse tax payers with per capita taxes. One problem with per capita is you have nothing to relate it to.

For example, it's like me telling you I paid a million dollars, but did't tell you what I bought. Now if you knew it was a post hole digger you'd think I was nuts! Right? But if you knew it was a fortune 500 company you'd say I was genius.

The same goes for taxes. That's why you have to look at cost of goverment and taxes as a percentage of the personal income those taxes produce.

When theses figures are used, Minnesota is not wasting tons of money, as you suggest. It is in the top 10 of states in the nation in creating wealth and in the middle in tax cost for that wealth.

Which means we are very good at not wasting money AND very good at making public investment that produces income.

So, why do you and I feel like we pay a lot in taxes already? Because we do! We pay a higher percentage compared to individuals who earn $350,000 or more.

How successful has Governor Pawlenty's economic policy of tax breaks to the weathiest to create jobs been? It actually has not created more wealth OR more jobs. It's just made people like you and I frustrated with taxes.

Now does that bother you? If it still doesn't, it's either because you earn more than $350,000 already or you like paying taxes. The former is possible, but the latter is not.

Thanks,

Wade Vitalis

6

March 24, 2008
State Taxpayer: ...
Mr. Vitalis,

I want to apologize for the fact that I didn’t notice that you had posted back on this item until today and also for the fact that I asked you for more info on the tax rates you were quoting in your post on Bob Barrett’s most recent letter to the editor when in fact you have given me a little direction here as to where to find the information you were referencing.

I am assuming here based on your comments that you were looking at the 2007 Minnesota Tax Incidence Study on the MN Department of Revenue website at the following link: http://www.taxes.state.mn.us/l..._links.pdf
(btw, it would be helpful in the future if you would be willing to cite specific sources for your statistics / assertions so that everyone can go and see for themselves what you are talking about). Since you didn’t really specify which years data you were looking at let’s assume you were looking at the effective tax rates for 2004 by income decile tables on pg. 46 & 47 of the report. Since I don’t see any category for $350 incomes, I am going to guess that you are referring to the top 5% figure in this table which is the only one with an 8.9% effective tax rate for total state and local taxes.

In looking at these tables it is fairly apparent that the reason the top 5% of income earners in MN pay a smaller % of their income in taxes than do those of us who earn less is because some taxes (sales, property, excise) are not based on income but on other things such as the value of ones property or the value of purchases one makes. Because of this, the higher ones income rises, the smaller these “non-income” based taxes become as a % of ones income. I’m pretty sure you understand that but for some reason don’t think it is fair.

You mentioned that people making $30K to $150K are paying about 11.9% of their income in taxes. If I add up the second through seventh deciles (household income range of $27,948 -$145,557) I get total taxes of $10,144MM on income of $83,296MM and a total of 1,354,841 households or average taxes of $7,488 on average income of $61,480. That is nearly 12.2% so things are apparently worse than you thought. Those people making over $350K only paid $621MM in taxes on income of $6,943MM or 8.9% - however when you consider that there are only 1,239 households in this population you see that they are paying an average of $501,040 in taxes per household albeit on average incomes of $5.6MM. That is about 67 times more than what you and I are paying.

If you find this unfair I would have to think that you probably find the fact that their house payments, grocery bills, car payments and utility bills are all a smaller percentage of their income than yours are is quite unfair as well. Just because someone makes more money than you and I do does not mean that they get more utility from houses, cars, food, electricity or government than we do and as a result they should not necessarily be charged more for them simply because they happen to make more. It isn’t unfair and it really isn’t that hard to understand.

Thanks, ST
7

March 27, 2008
wade vitalis: ...
Taxpayer,

Great to see your using the link! I much prefer data over hyperbole. You say only 1,239 households make $350,000 in Minnesota?

I need to refer you to page 46 which is 2009 deciles by household and income to clear something up.

In this chart it shows in the 9th decile of income $350,000 has 33,000 households. The 10th decile starting at $1,145,000 has 6,109. The top 5% $3,622,000 has 1023 and the top 1% making $28,000,000 has 42 people. Which is 40,174 households.

So, where did 1,239 come from?

I'm guessing an earlier chart maybe mis-read. Please check for yourself and let me know. Which I'm sure you will.

A quick comparison of 2004 shows you there are more people making a lot more money in the upper deciles. What was the 9th decile in 2004, is now the 8th decile. Which means, and what is asserted in the report, is that income is being re-distributed up and "lower and middle deciles will see tax increases while higer deciles will see taxes drop".

Again, you made my point for me. You say, basically, this disparity really doesn't bother you. Which means to me paying the high taxes you do also doesn't really bother you. Which is o.k. But you ought not complain too much if your not willing to recognize the problem.

Kind of like going to the Doctor and he tells you - "yes; you are sick." And to make you feel better, "you need to take this pill." But instead, you choose to ignore his advice.

There is a fairness issue here. Even if the 8.3 went to 9.3 from those 40,000 households the overall effect on tax incidence for us lower deciles would significantly drop our burden. And we can't argue about that fact.

Thanks for reading,

Wade

p.s. While you are there check page 83. You will see that 41% of the motor fuel excise tax (gas tax) cost of business is exported out of state in products sold. That 41% is not paid by Minnesota tax payers. Which supports my argument that there are short-comings in my friend Bob Barrett's math - but not his basketball game!
8

April 02, 2008

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